Sunday, February 8, 2009

How The World Almost Came To An End At 2PM On September 18

LiveLeak has caught a scary moment of previously undisclosed insight by Paul Kanjorski where he reveals some facts that have not been captured by the media previously. At 2 minutes and 20 seconds in the video below, Democratic Representative Kanjorski explains how the Federal Reserve told Congress members about a "tremendous draw-down of money market accounts in the United States, to the tune of $550 billion dollars." According to Kanjorski, this electronic transfer occurred over the period of an hour or two. And it gets worse. Kanjorski paraphrases the following disclosure by Bernanke and Paulson:

On Thursday (Sept 18), at 11am the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous draw-down of money market accounts in the U.S., to the tune of $550 billion was being drawn out in the matter of an hour or two. The Treasury opened up its window to help and pumped a $105 billion in the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide. We were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close the operation, close down the money accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn't be further panic out there.

If they had not done that, their estimation is that by 2pm that afternoon, $5.5 trillion would have been drawn out of the money market system of the U.S., would have collapsed the entire economy of the U.S., and within 24 hours the world economy would have collapsed. It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it.

We are no better off today than we were 3 months ago because we have a decrease in the equity positions of banks because other assets are going sour by the moment.

Interestingly, Kanjorski, and likely more and more Democrats, are starting to shift to the camp that more time is needed to make a correct decision this time (which may explain Geithner's decision to postpone the "bank-rescue" announcement by one day to Tuesday), instead of rushing into another half-baked plan. Very scary stuff.



Update - for all who claim that Kanjorski is yapping with a few screws loose upstairs, take a look at this clip: http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing092408.wvx
and fast forward to the 1 hour, 50 minute and 48 second mark. This is archived footage from the September 24 House Financial Services hearing at which both Paulson and Bernanke are present. Kanjorski asks Paulson this very question, and states to Paulson, that the information came originally from him. Now, Kanjorski may be anything but not senile as he is merely repeating facts that Paulson tells him. And Paulson does not refute the facts. His explanation is somewhat amusing. Make your own conclusions. Sphere: Related Content
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128 comments:

James said...

Great. We have a system that cant be saved and cant fail.

Nooyawka said...

Whose fingerprints are on the drawdown? Doesn't anyone have a clue? Five gazillion dollars in an hour and no culprits? Something's missing here.

Anonymous said...

Respectfully - the delay is because the Geithner proposals as planned Monday noon would precede the Monday 5:30PM Senate stimulus vote Monday. Once both are in the open - one of them cannot PASS PUBLIC OPINION AND OUTRAGE. You are far too kind to say "they want to get it right". dgj

Anonymous said...

"Something's missing here."

Not only as nooyawka asked, who was doing it, but where was it going?

Also, regardless of when it ws announced, the increased guarantee to $250,000 did not go into effect until Oct 3rd:

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financial/2008/fil08102.html

Gentlemutt said...

May not matter to the story, but Sept 19th was a Friday, not a Thursday. And for what it is worth the S&P rose ~4% on Thursday the 18th, and then another ~4% on Friday the 19th. Those were the big recovery days when the market seemed to 'exhale' after the Lehman collapse.

Does sort of make me wonder if this Congressman got confused, and maybe added a zero to his story? Anyway, if he is correct no doubt there will be other confirmation coming out soon enough.

Tyler Durden said...

good catch on the date. i presume kanjorski is a little off on the specifics but doubt he has a reason to misrepresent Benny and Hank.

Comrade t=sqrt(2h/g) said...

Maybe that was Thursday Sept 11 2008, 7 years after the 911 events.
Yeah, I knew it. Also WTC7 and 7 seconds ...

Seem it's all 7.

Minh said...

It's 7 years and 7 days after the 9/11 events. "The Lord" supposed to rest in the 7th day.

That's Sept 18, 2008.

Repent and recalculate your move on 9/11 ! Now :-)

Anonymous said...

Today is 02/09/2009. Reinhardt is forecasting a crash...

http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.983582/browse_thread/thread/20d5ad8c5bfa7e54/ffcac17726b238f9?hl=en&lnk=st&q&pli=1

Anonymous said...

As the world financial system begins to re-gain its feet it appears that the blogging world is becoming marginilized. If you have to resort to headlines and stories like this to gain attention, I suggest you move into the compound with Dick Cheney and wait for the end of the world as we know it.

DocG said...

"The great tower Moloch built for itself is about to fall. All we need to do is let it. Instead, political leaders all over the world, many of them well-meaning souls with the best of intentions, are struggling to find some means, any means, of propping it up. It's as though Goliath had stuffed himself so full that he'd collapsed of his own weight. And David were desperately trying to revive him, so the Philistines could reassuringly maintain the accustomed level of tyranny. Such is the power of the status quo, tradition, inertia, timidity, call it what you will."
http://amoleintheground.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

YOURS THIS STORY. Grow up.

Minh said...

So its official. After waiting 7 years for mens' justice in vain, his majesty the Lord has intervene in finacial market and punish the bankers that finance two wars based on lies and killing of their 3000 compatriots in daylight and blame the crime on a guy living somewhere in Afghanistan.

Thank you Lord and wish you good luck. :-D

TimeOnline 9/14/2008
“In principle Lehman should be allowed to go,” said Roubini. “But if that happens the next day there will be a run on Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs. Let’s not pretend that’s not going to happen. The systemic risk is worse now than it was with Bear Stearns. It’s pretty pathetic really. They are running out of ideas.”

NWT 9/20/2008:

Mr. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. had made an urgent and unusual evening visit to Capitol Hill, and they were gathered around a conference table in the offices of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

“When you listened to him describe it you gulped," said Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York.

As Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, put it Friday morning on the ABC program “Good Morning America,” the congressional leaders were told “that we’re literally maybe days away from a complete meltdown of our financial system, with all the implications here at home and globally.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/washington/19cnd-cong.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Anonymous said...

It is called....New World Order.
Trilateral Commision.
Global Banking.
Global control.
Wake up!....It is all part of the plan!

Anonymous said...

He says at the end, we are not experts in this. why the fuck don't they get a bunch of economists instead of congressmen to deal with this.

Carole said...

Gentlemutt is correct that Sept. 19 was a Friday, but the date the Congressman was referring to was Sept. 18, which of course, was a Thursday.

Anonymous said...

It's a real shame how quick many Americans are to assume that some sort of 9/11 like conspiracy has brought us to our current position...It seems to me that we -- the American people and our leaders -- are the "real culprits." The people/institutions drawing down these accounts were simply acting as rationally as can be expected in a run on the bank. It's good that the Fed interrupted this run and got people to take a deep breath. But the fundamentals of our economy our no better than they were in September and frankly have been bad for years. The real wonder is how we have managed to keep the system going as long as we have. When are we going to get serious about cutting our debt and deficit spending (by reducing government spending AND correcting our balance of trade)? We can only expect people/institutions to invest in the U.S. if they feel like their investments will be safe.

Anonymous said...

Re " who's finger prints were on the withdrawal - if it helps you can count me out

Anonymous said...

Wasn't this the bad guy's secret plan in "Die Hard 4"?

Curt Thurston said...

There weren't "anybody's" fingerprints. It was the general population pulling all their money out of their money market accounts simultaneously because of the banking scare.

Anonymous said...

I want to know why WAMU was allowed to collapse but the other banks seems to have been propped up.

Mario said...

He may have been incorrect about the date, but if you'll recall the original TARP plan was put together in a weekend, the weekend of 18th.

The drawdown that is mentioned happened on the institutional level (401(k) managers, pension managers) so no specific individual was responsible for the "electronic run".

The increase in the FDIC insurance limit to $250K was done to stem this crisis as well

Mark said...

I don't understand the comments above that suggest there was come ind of conspiracy here. This was not a big secret at the time. On September 17, the day before this $550 billion run on the Money Market funds, Floyd Norris wrote in his New York Times blog:

"I suspect there is a run on money market funds, or at least the ones that do not own only super-safe assets."

http://norris.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/flight-to-quality/

SchizoDuckie said...

Why don't you guys just print some more dollars and say another prayor?

Thanks for ruining the world economy you ****** ****

Stephen said...

Remeber one of the "hallmarks of the finanical apocolypse" was that Money market funds broke 1....which they are never supposed to do....they are supposed to preserve capital. To go below 1 is like watching Kriss Angel turn 4 quarters into three without ever touching the table.

As for who....look in the mirror. The American people own huge assets, when pooled.

So now think about why banks were not lending. They wanted to preserve cash because they didnt want to be called for cash and not have it. Additionally, it explains why they wouldnt lend overnight, because they didnt know if 1) They would need it themselves and 2) If they would get it back.

This was suspected at the time. We came close.

What is going on now is very different from what was happening then.

Anonymous said...

Check the news headlines in the institutional money market space around Sept 18th. There was a MAJOR incident that caused this run on the money markets. Reserve Funds "broke a buck" causing a panic with investors. Investors began pulling their money out of traditionally very safe money markets because they were afraid of more funds breaking the buck.

Investors had nowhere else to put this cash and eventually put their money back when the government guaranteed the remaining money market funds.

Minh said...

Anon at 9:26 AM
1. Try to build a steel-reinforced concrete like described in this picture of WTC1/WTC2 during construction.
If you don't have the money let's make a global effort. Ask every citizens of this Earth to pay $3 for building a real-size model of WTC1. Ask a real insurance company to ensure the building with the prior knowledge that a 747 will hit it in 6 weeks with full tank. Ask for the price of estimate damage.

Not yet to mention the WTC7 which falled in 7 seconds that no plane ever has hit it.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200609/Why_Indeed_Did_the_WTC_Buildings_Completely_Collapse_Jones_Thermite_World_Trade_Center.pdf

Anonymous said...

I agree with Nooyawka. This doesn't pass the smell test. Where did the money go?

I'm not doubting that it went somewhere, but from what I have seen lately, our regulators are not very bright to say the least.

Put Markopolos on it. He'll follow the money.

Anonymous said...

'May not matter to the story, but Sept 19th was a Friday, not a Thursday. And for what it is worth the S&P rose ~4% on Thursday the 18th, and then another ~4% on Friday the 19th. Those were the big recovery days when the market seemed to 'exhale' after the Lehman collapse.'

Doesn't it say September *18th*, in both the headline and the article? And "Thursday, September 18th" in the article?

Anonymous said...

It's worth mentioning that financial markets have melted down before and the outcome, while desperate for a time, has always been more growth and a stronger financial system afterward.

There is no reason to assume a financial meltdown is the end of the economic system as we know it. It wouldn't be easy or enjoyable, that is true. But it's hardly an unusual event.

The reason nobody can "solve the problem" is because there is nothing to solve. These things happen. The only solution is to destroy the debt, suffer the deflation and do it as quickly as possible. It's foolish to think that engaging a solution (debt) that is part of the problem will work.

Right now, credit IS working. I can walk out tomorrow and get a loan if I choose to because my credit is good. Anyone who has good credit can get a loan. That is how credit markets work. The SAD part is that they haven't really worked that way for about 5 years. For that period, ANYONE can get a loan. So Obama wants to restart that as part of the "solution"?

We continue to fool ourselves into believing the level of activity we had for 5 years was real. It wasn't.

Greg & Kathy said...

******* Can you say E-L-E-C-T-I-O-N STRATEGY???

Greg & Kathy said...

******* Can you say E-L-E-C-T-I-O-N STRATEGY???

Anonymous said...

It smells like that rat Soros and his band of thieves.

Greg & Kathy said...

Wow- that was my guess also.

Anonymous said...

can anyone say
"TESTING ONE, TWO, TESTING ONE TWO"

msspurlock said...

You really think the crash was an accident?
Why do you think Hillary Clinton and top Democrats dumped their stocks after Obama's meeting with Soros on Billionaire's Row?
The Bohemian Grove grapevine works that way.

Anonymous said...

What panic by American people on Sept 18th, 2008? Nobody was told anything and we were caught up in the looney election. I doubt that was it. It was purposefully done, it is not happenstance. Just don't have that piece of the puzzle yet. We will though, good people are seeking the truth.

DBS said...

Attack against the US embassy in Yemen.

Anonymous said...

The Dems are trying to push this through so that they get what they want. This stimulus package has nothing to do with saving our economy. It has everything to do with handing the government our power.

Everyone who wants something for nothing can thank themselves for this mess.

People, wake up and start taking responsibility.

You trust the banks to take care of your money, the schools to take care of your kids, and the grocery store to supply you with food.

It felt so good, that they began to feel entitled, to take what they could not afford and to give away what they did not have (can you say illegals?)

This is the consequence of living out-of-touch. You have now given your power to the government. Trust me, you will regret it.

William said...

There always comes a day to pay!

If financial bondage isn’t the form of payment we are lashing onto future generations, the method of payment is often blood. Either the bondage debt incurs or war becomes the reconciling factor unless individual liberty and capitalism are given room from the repression of government. I defy history to prove me wrong!

The liberty of my family or the blood of my family, I see reason to defend both from a fallen and repressive government.

Robert H. Yauger said...

Re Kanjorski:
I'm a rationalist and far from a conspiracy theorist, bur a look at the concurrence of events over the past few years is uncanny.

1) 9/11 and a sudden realization that much of the world is out to bring us down.

2) The growth of alternate centers of power in the world.

3) 'Bad, bad' George Bush. Much overhyped.

4) The Chinese flag in the Beirut disturbances. Never explained.

5) The media empahasis on 'bad' George, 'evil' Karl Rove, Irving R. Levine replayed,global 'warming' and all sorts of insubstantiated, inspired mythology.

Is there an Axis of Middle Eastern, Chinese, Korean, Somalian, 'slicky boy' evil at work? Are they manipulating the economy? Remember the contrivance of 1987?

Robert H. Yauger said...

Re Kanjorski:
I'm a rationalist and far from a conspiracy theorist, bur a look at the concurrence of events over the past few years is uncanny.

1) 9/11 and a sudden realization that much of the world is out to bring us down.

2) The growth of alternate centers of power in the world.

3) 'Bad, bad' George Bush. Much overhyped.

4) The Chinese flag in the Beirut disturbances. Never explained.

5) The media empahasis on 'bad' George, 'evil' Karl Rove, Irving R. Levine replayed,global 'warming' and all sorts of insubstantiated, inspired mythology.

Is there an Axis of Middle Eastern, Chinese, Korean, Somalian, 'slicky boy' evil at work? Are they manipulating the economy? Remember the contrivance of 1987?

Mr. Conservative said...

Good comments. I will be quoting your blog tonight.

Mr. Conservative

http://blogs.lubbockonline.com/conservative/

Mr. Conservative said...

Good comments. I will be quoting your blog tonight.

Mr. Conservative

http://blogs.lubbockonline.com/conservative/

David E. Powell said...

This almost sounds like something from Tom Clancy's book "Debt of Honor" where someone eliberately crashes the markets. In the book that was part of a larger plan against the US.

What I would like is for someone to seriously look at the records of the transactions. See who was selling and where the orders came from.

Another thing to look at is if shell companies or fronts were selling back and forth to each other to take the prices down. That's not a Clancy thing, that's just something I have thought of for how it could be done.

With the new Administration running Treasury it might be hard to do there but surely people on the Street could go back and look at the records and see what the trends were and who set them, and see if it is coincidence or economic warfare.

David in New Jersey

max said...

Thankfully Superman escaped from his kryponite bonds just in time to defeat the evil Dradownians!

Nieko said...

With George Sorros history ....this has finger prints all over it

The Soros Threat To Democracy
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted Monday, September 24, 2007

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=275526219598836

Richard Beach said...

Makes you wonder. Let's recount the sequence of events that created this horrible economy:

Up until November 2006, the economy is growing in spite of major hits like 9/11, corporate meltdowns, and Hurricane Katrina.

Then, Democrats take over the House and Senate. They resist any increased regulation on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as suggested by President Bush and the GOP. They resist drilling for oil and building nuclear power plants. They let everyone know that they will end the Bush tax cuts.

One year after Democrats take over, the country enters a recession.

Then, these same Democrats (specifically Senator Chuck Schumer) begin trash-talking the American financial system and release crucial private information about the bank Indy Macs problems. The run on that bank forces it into bankruptcy.

Then, these same Democrats propose a new era of FDR-like spending. It's like throwing a bomb into a burning building to put out the fire; these Democrats are going to destroy the financial engine that powered this country for over 200 years.

Democrats and Republicans who do not understand Economics 101 are clueless.

America is going to pay the price for decades of anti-capitalist education as it is taught in our schools and colleges. They have been mis-educated.

I fear there are not enough properly educated people in the country to counteract the marvelously strong Democratic marketing machine.

If these "stimulus" and "bailout" bills are not stopped, we will see unemployment skyrocket just like it did during Democratic President FDR's term in office.

You can make bank on it.

Anonymous said...

A 4.4% gain in the S&P 500 Index on the September 18th 2008 may explain where a lot of the cash was going - back into the stock market. After a major decline there would likely be a lot of cash on the sidelines and many people waiting for the correct moment to reenter the equities market.

What quantity of $ entered the stock market that day? Where else would the money go? Into mattresses? Converted to other currencies? Gold? It appears much of it may have been put into stocks. Does anyone have a better understanding of this other than God's retribution or a 9/11 conspiracy coincidence? The quality of the discourse reflects poorly on our education system.

Separatist said...

This was instigated by the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers because it caused the The Primary Fund to "break the buck." Some sources say that the Reserve Management Company (managers of The Primary Fund) warned institutional clients of the impending "breaking" which then caused a "run on the fund." This probably precipitated the run on money market funds as a whole. So, if you really want to blame anyone, it could credibly be placed on whoever decided NOT to bail out Lehman Brothers.

Richard Beach said...

Lehman went bankrupt because it took risks beyond its ability to recover. That's the way it goes. In a free market, there are always other financial services firms ready to take up the business. That's how the free market works - there will always be two sides to every financial event.

However, when Big Government tries to go against the natural economic law, one of two things happen:
1. either they throw good money after bad and nothing happens; unemployment continues to rise, and the smart money stays away from any kind of rigged investment scheme like TARP, etc.
or
2. they break the system and we get a whole new socialist-type economy which looks a lot like Europe where unemployment seems to doggedly remain around 10%.

Either way, the Democratic policies are poised to create a new FDR-like decade of high, double-digit unemployment. Read your history books! We've been through this before.

Anonymous said...

When the Hunt Brothers tried to corner the silver market, it was a national scandal and against the law. How is it there are enough anonymous billionairs making electronic untraceable transactions of this size , and no one knows who. Try to deposit $10,001 in the bank.

Richard said...

I appreciate the honesty of the Rep. from Pa. He doesn't know and nobody knows what will happen with all this interruption of failure. We should allow the system to fail and rebuild. The problem is we cannot trust our leaders and there is nobody honest enough in the dugout that can be called out. Its gotta fail and we gotta fight our way through the mess. Sharpen up your knife and keep your weapon loaded and near. Otherwise we are looking at enslavement and poverty.

Anonymous said...

If the economy presented a picture of 'unrest' and 'uncertainty', I seriously doubt that the people pulling cash from money market funds would be putting them INTO the stock market. With the market and 401K and mutual funds trending downward, that just doesn't follow, somehow. The money might be going into gold or diamonds as a hedge. Sad for the markets, of course.

Anonymous said...

Check the events surrounding it. In THIS year, not 2001. This is the public's response to the huge drop in the stock market following the $85 billion AIG bailout. No mystery, no need to go searching for conspiracies or "fingerprints". All it takes is a little logic and perspective.

Anonymous said...

Russian markets were closed most of the week of the 18th and reopened on the 19th. Then they excelled wildly on the 19th and were closed early Friday afternoon as a result.

Anonymous said...

I too think a lot of this has been staged for election purposes. I think things are getting out of hand because we are being ran by an bunch of power hungry people on both sides of the aisle.
I do not want the govenment controling everything and I do not want to support a bunch of people that will not get a job. If everything becomes socialized I predict that there will be more unemployment by choice. It angers me that some people don't have to work while I get up at 4:30 every morning to limp off to my job. I know plenty of people that feel the same and some are saying if taxes continue to rise that there is no incentive to work while others don't but are given free health care , unemployment benefits, housing, free food etc....

Bryan said...

Rumor is that it was Soros, in an attempt to tilt the election toward Obama.

Anonymous said...

That's a bunch of BS. There was no reason for a big draw down at that time. I don't believe it really happened unless of course someone like Soros did try to trigger it. Although I don't believe that either.

It's just an excuse to promote the Stimulas package and a bunch of pork.

Anonymous said...

Middle of the Atlantic? Re-phrased near the bottom of the Atlantic.

Anonymous said...

God, you are all idiots.

Comrade t=sqrt(2h/g) said...

This happen *after* my post on FEBRUARY 8, 2009 10:15 PM, at that time the title of this was How The World Almost Came To An End At 2PM On September 19
You may ask the author Tyler Durden if he has modified his post after reading somebody observation about Friday was 19th Sept. That would explain the confusion of some poster above.

Not that I clame that "the Lord" has burn down that Chinese hotel to prove my point. :-(

As to the formula t=sqrt(2h/g) every 14 years-old could read that on their physics book and about to do some excercises in this time of year on the subject of II law of Newtonian dynamics. Well at least that is in Poland where I lives.
According to Chinese television, the fire began at 8:27 p.m. Monday

Richard Cannon said...

I found this very interesting. Coincidentily on that date my Partner and I were flying to London from Seattle on British Air. When we proceeded down the loading tube (lack of a better name), after clearing all security there were 4 federal officers randomly stopping passengers (note at this point we are no more than 10ft from the plane door) and asking them if they have any cash on them. My Partner was stopped. The officer asked, "are you carrying any cash on you?"
He replied yes, the officer asked how much, he replied about $1500.00, the officer asked:"Would you be willing to have me count it here now"? He replied yes you may count it, the officer replied: "OK you can board the plane". Now, we actually did see other people producing their cash and the officers counting it. In the end, they removed 2 people who were not allowed to board the plane. Never having seen this occur before at that point boarding an international flight we were mistyfied. I think this explains it.

Anonymous said...

Lot of nut-jobs around here...

Anonymous said...

There should be no mystery exactly who requested every single electronic transaction with the technology the US Treasury, Banks, lending institutions have.
It was probably a combination of regular American Citizens panicing over all the "crisis" talk over and over, and the Soros dude that adores Obingo, and would have stopped at nothing to get him elected.
And whoever said, "you are all idoits" is an IDOIT, because there are some very interesting theories here. Your probably just a 'Obiebot'.
Whatever exactly happened that day and time electronically at least made us think of how fragile our entire economy and monetary system is. And that's Global.
One thing like this can bring everything down.
Complete destructive chaos.
But, the other way this same destructive chaos but in a Longer more drawn out process is the new, Stimulus being rammed down American Citizen working taxpayers throats, by force.
The 'Stimulus' is really nothing more than Obingo paying back his supporters.
It's really a 'Welfare' Stimulus. It un-caps the 'Welfare Reform Act of 1996'. Because, it gives the most funding to the states that has the highest Welfare rolls.
That's encouraging more Welfare.
Also, if you read the 'Stimulus', both House version and Senate version, including the Amendments, that very well could be Jerked out and the original House bill reinstated for Obingo to sign, and probably will.
You can see very favorable increased and added perks to many of the Social 'Entitlement' Programs. Like for instance the, SSI's getting 1 extra month's check.
Another increase to HUD-Section 8 Housing Choice & Mobility Program. Mostly for SSI's and Welfare's and ITIN's (illegal aliens) to be able to buy, foreclosed, vacant homes that have been refurbished by Stimulus workers and bought/given to these low to extremely low income people.
There's no down, no closing costs, and the interest rate is 1% on a 40 year mortgage!
Good credit people CANNOT get a loan like that!
USDA Rural Direct & USDA Guaranteed homeownership loans, same thing as the HUD-Section 8 Homeownership loans.
And all the loans included in the 'Stimulus' are FOR LOW AND EXTREMELY LOW INCOMES O->N->L->Y!
I can clearly see in the 'Stimulus' with all it's Welfare related perks and funding, that there's is a Massive Movement to Choke Out ALL Middle-Class people.
That's what it's about.
Make the rich, mega rich, like Nancy (Musallini) Pelosi, majorly rich.
And, to bring DOWN ALL others to a same-same Poverty Level of Slave people.
This will all lead to Not Enough People Working To Pay for All these 'Entitlement' people.
Already now, 50% of American Families DO NOT pay Income Taxes.
Look around on the 1st of the Month.
Do you see tons of people with those Handicapped Placards on their license plates or rear view mirrors?
Most likely they never worked a single day in their lives and are on SSI-Supplemental Security Income.
SSI is NOT Social Security at all.
Social Security old folks pay taxes, pay MediCARE premiums and deductables and all that.
SSI's get 95% of their Property Tax or Rent money given back to them in October each year.
Social Security old folks don't get any of that, they pay full Property taxes.
SSI's are getting yet another big funding boost to Low Income Heating & Air Conditioning Assistance. You can find that in your PG & E bill. There's a Federal & State assistance program and the limits of income too.
ONLY THE LOW INCOMES will be getting their homes Remodeled with the 'Stimulus' too.
New Energy Efficient Windows, Insulation, Heating Systems, Air Conditioning Systems, and all new Energy Star Appliances too!
And Michelle Obingo said, "this will save the average low income person $350 per year". WOW!
With the assistance and the savings on top of that of $350 per year from all the remodeling with new everything, they won't pay anything! How nice for them!
I don't get any of that, I have to pay my whole bill and buy used appliances, because I have to pay my full house payment & property taxes! The SSI's DON'T.
And I see TANF, the 2nd part of Welfare, gets more money and longer on the rolls to sit on it.
EVERYTHING in this Bill in NOT to encourage work, unless your an Illegal Alien and want the Construction Jobs from this 'Stimulus', because the DemoGRANTS & Obingo TOOK OUT Senator Sessions (R-Georgia)'s 'E-Verify' to keep the 'Stimulus' Jobs going to 'ONLY' American Citizens, and that was Jerked Out, and now the Illegals that Napolitano just boasted of "leaving" "going back to Mexico" because of our "recession" will get a Welcome Mat from Obingo and the Dem's to RETURN for all those Construction 'Stimulus' Jobs!
So, anyone can see clearly this is ENCOURAGING people to get onto SSI, Welfare, or any 'other' Social 'Entitlement' Programs, and stay in a Trickling Up Low Income lifestyle.
Because my neighbors on SSI live much better than I do and they have never worked a day in their lives, inherited a paid for home worth $450,000 on over 25 acres of land. SSI has no homeownership Value or Size limit as long as each Individual on SSI only own's one DEED.
They live it up. They also just bought a new car.
So they will really enjoy their home remodel. Although, they don't even really need it, they have lovely appliances already and beautiful furnishings as well.
Oh, and anyone can get on SSI, for "depression" or "anxiety" now.
My whole little town in Northern Cali, is on SSI except me, I still work.
When the 'Head of Household' is on SSI, the entire family living there, get's SSI checks too.
In California there's an added check that making California BROKE, it's called SSP.
SSP is State Supplemental Payment and is added to the Federal SSI.
An Individual gets Tax Free-$907 and a Couple get's tax free-$1,569.
PRUCOL & CAPI are just a couple of the Illegal Alien Welfare SSI programs. There's quite a few of 'Illegal Alien' only SSI Social 'Entitlement' Programs.
This will definately SINK this 'Stimulus'.
Too many people on these Programs that pay NO taxes like SSI, not enough people working.
Then add in Amnesty & Boomer Retirements, and you will have NOBODY working, because the rich Bueraucrats don't work!

Anonymous said...

And if after this stupid 'Welfare' Stimulus bill goes into law, and is draining away, China decides to call their notes/bonds??
What then?
That would be unexplicably IMPLOSIVE!

Anonymous said...

Generally, I don’t believe in conspiracy theories, but nonetheless I enjoy the thought-process. This topic was widely covered at the time, so I’m not so sure the Congressman's remarks are incredibly newsworthy now, but to whomever asked the question regarding the Lehman collapse, it is none other than Timothy Geithner who was a primary figure in the government's "allowing" Lehman to fail. What caused the massive run was in part due to the fact that Bank of New York Mellon's cash reserve fund inexplicably had exposure in Lehman paper, which of course, had gone under earlier that week. This, and the Reserve Fund's breaking the buck (I think it was down to 97 or 98 cents on the dollar), caused the money run.

For those conspiracy theorists out there who want a research project, look into any connection between Soros and the hedge fund industry's lobbying efforts to repeal the "uptick rule," which was repealed in the summer of 2007 by the SEC under Chairman Cox (presumably following some very strong lobbying, and some perfunctory "studies" concluding that the uptick rule was outdated). There was no apparent legitimate reason for this rule to be repealed - the only benefit was to the hedge funds, which thereafter successfully raided Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers, and made billions in the process. The other side to the argument is that Bear and Lehman were doomed to fail anyway, but the key variable is timing. Without the uptick rule, a bear raid is very simple to pull off by a large hedge fund. What happened after Lehman went under?...short sales on financial stocks were temporarily banned (I think the ban is still in place to this day), but of course the damage was done. And if you like conspiracies, it was at this time that the McCain-Palin surge in the polls ended, and Obama strolled to an easy victory.

gruder007 said...

It does in fact seem funny that this happened 6 weeks before the election. If I had to take a guess, George Soros has his fingerprints on this. This is something he has done in the past. In 1992 he broke the Bank of England.

Here is a great conspiracy theory.

-He causes a financial crash / crisis.
- Everyone blames Bush policies.
- Obama waltzes to an easy win.

Minh said...

Note how many anonymous posts are on this thread: 28/68. And how many links are to this post. The few people who have enough courage to voice their anger over 9/11 include Italian former interior minister and president, and that's all among heavy weight head of states. Former though. Sad. And the knowledge needed to understand it is of a 15 year-old. Take a Nokia cell phone, activate the stopper, measure the time of an object falling from 2m to the ground, it's 0.6s.
Now isn't that 0.6s=sqrt(2*2/10) ?

Take a apple and drop from the height of 620ft, (47 story-building) How long does that apple take to touch the ground ? 7 seconds.

That's all.

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, let the raping and pillaging begin.

Anonymous said...

“For the third time today, it’s reminiscent of those pictures we’ve all seen too much on television before when a building was deliberately destroyed by well placed dynamite to knock it down.”
— Dan Rather, September 11th 2001

Anonymous said...

I smell George Soros! Where have you gone, J. Edgar Hoover?

Anonymous said...

If there was a giant run on the money markets, where was it running to? If it was into Gold, the price would have gone parabolic. Their would have been giant footprints if that really happened. I agree with those who say it was just a ghost story to enable the looting that is ongoing.
Crucifixtion would be the best penalty for these criminals. And tied, not nailed to the cross.
Make them linger for days.

J. Amoros said...

Anonymous said...
I smell George Soros! BINGO!

What else was happening those days? What were the polls in the presidential campaign saying?

Anonymous said...

"...It was the general population pulling all their money out of their money market accounts simultaneously because of the banking scare."

Yeah - all decided to do it within the same one hour time span. Not bloody likely. This has SOROS written all over it. When you consider that evil man has devalued the currency of entire nations, multiple times, there can be little doubt.

Anonymous said...

Some commenters asked "where did the money go?".

If you visit http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h15/20080915/
and
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h15/20080922/
and look at the interest rates of the short term (90 days or less) treasury notes, and compare those two weeks, you can notice that they dropped the day Lehman announced it would file for bankruptcy, and they dropped more the next few days.

That may suggest that many, who pulled their money from money market funds, moved a bunch of their money to those short term treasury notes.

Anonymous said...

Come on guys, get your charts out. After the dip in july the market went sideways for two months. Sep 18 was the last chance to get out of the market before it dropped 4,000 points in 60 days. You dont have to be a genius to see someone needed the cash to short the market. Nice move, pull out the money to start a panic and then useit to sort the market.

Anonymous said...

Everybody quick, pay off all your debts and then let the government and banks gag on that. If the system fails what would you care??? Owing nobody is the only way to go.

Anonymous said...

Screw the system and the government...let em fall...we would be better off without them...
Let's hit the reset button...

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

Too bad Kanjorski made his numbers up:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/120220-kanjorski-and-the-money-market-funds-the-facts

fhlh said...

That does it... all bets are off after reading the seekingalpha.com article.

seville said...

WE SHALL DESTROY CAPITAL AND WE CAUSE DEPRESSIONS:: Economic crises have been produced by us for the GOYIM by no other means than the withdrawal of money from circulation. Huge capitals have stagnated, withdrawing money from States, which were constantly obliged to apply to those same stagnant capitals for loans. These loans burdened the finances of the State with the payment of interest and made them the bond slaves of these capitals .... The concentration of industry in the hands of capitalists out of the hands of small masters has drained away all the juices of the peoples and with them also the States

Anonymous said...

I think this was very near the date that the fund in NY "broke the buck" and a lot of stuff started hitting the fan. It didn't matter that the markets were up... things were going on. And look where we are now. Whose money was it? Well that's a lot in an hour or so, so it had to be a hedge fund or institution of some kind. For the record, fearing a "breaking of the buck" on one of my own funds, I'd moved some money the day before. Why? Becuase I was sitting without power in the middle of Hurricane Ike and could not access accounts electronically and had no access to news. I somehow heard about the matter and had to phone my brokerage to move the funds. But, I was probably one of many who did that around that time. Whatever it was that cause the big bucks to move is what caused me and others to move as well.

Tyler Durden said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tyler Durden said...

Good comments. Just one thing - for all who claim Kanjorski was demented, and was imagining numbers and facts, please check this out:

http://www.house.gov/jec/Research%20Reports/2008/rr110-25.pdf

Minh said...

For people who blame this on Mr Soros, I think you'd better blame it on his fellow Mr Greenspan. This guy understand that the Iraq war is about oil, but nevertheless, he support it by lower the FED rate to support a housing bubble. The bubles sucked international saving glut to the US, hind the true cost of a two-front war, and enable the Bush-Cheney regime to continue that in hope of controling the oil-rich Iraq and uraniom-rich Afghanistan. If you read the economics of wars, you will see that no matter how rich a country, it could not afford to go to war for 10 years without suffering the consequences. The chinese war-master Tôn Tử (Sun tzu) said about this in the first page of "The art of war"



II. WAGING WAR


1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war,
where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots,
as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand
mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them
a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front,
including entertainment of guests, small items such as
glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor,
will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day.
Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory
is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and
their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town,
you will exhaust your strength.
3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources
of the State will not be equal to the strain.

4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped,
your strength exhausted and your treasure spent,
other chieftains will spring up to take advantage
of your extremity. Then no man, however wise,
will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

Thank you Tyler Durden for this post and wish you better and better attention from the internet surfers. I came here via a link from Yves Smith's repost of Steve Keen: "The Roving Cavaliers of Credit" and that is a long and concise post on debt-creation process that enable people like Greenspan to hind the true cost of wars.

Lu Cifer said...

Oh you sorry b1tch republitards who puke out the same tired dead talking point of George Sorros, please kill yourselves.
And if something is "too big to fail", then fvck it, it's too big to EXIST in the first damn place. Case fvcking closed, THE END.
BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!! BU$Hitler Co. MUST go to PRISON for LIFE!!!
http://Lu666Cifer.blogspot.com

David E. Powell said...

I still believe this is too big to be "Just Soros" though, and it is too well planned. I maintain that looking at who was setting the trends and figuring out who was selling to who is key to seeing if it was a market meltdown or something with more sinister motivations. As I said, see if someone was running shell groups selling back and forth. If they also had money to invest in shorting these things, they could spark a slide and recoup some if not make profit off the hedging on shorts.

It wouldn't so much be an individual in my mind if this happened as maybe some nation state or group. Of course this may just be a BS theory, fine. But I do hope someone is checking back on the records of the trades. All the trades are recorded after all, they have to be to keep accounts. It doesn't even have to be the government, surely some people on the street can check this out (Because I don't really trust all the gov't people right now, if this was the case why would they want to tell people?)

As for "luciwhatever" well I can tell that all 10 years he spent in first grade really paid off :P

I'm not politically trolling here and would like nothing better than to be proved wrong, but I want to see proof either way. Being as this financial hit has hurt so many everyday people, I think that looking back over the records to see how this happened and how future collapses might be prevented through basic market stuff is in the national interest, and in fact the global interest given how many people have been hurt.

If it was a market thing, fine let's see how we can learn from it practically. If it was something else, we need to find that out too, because a lot of people who have lost life savings and jobs will want to know and will want to deal with those responsible.

Anonymous said...

Look, it is highly unlikely that the scenario presented here even happened (the electronic run on the bank). Think about it. If you have money in a bank that you have heard is going to fail, you take your money out. But nobody hold onto cash. You put it somewhere else. This idea that money was being pulled is simply ludicrous. Money may very well have transferred from some institutions to others. But to suggest that there was a massive pulling out of money and it was just being hoarded makes no sense. Any currency whose value is threatened runs the risk of having a run on it. If people felt that the US dollar was no longer worth holding, they wouldn't just withdraw it, they would convert it to another currency or asset. As bad as the US financial system is in right now, it is still the safest and most trusted place for the world to invest in. But our fractional reserve system is inherently insolvent, and the very existence of the Federal Reserve and its political maneuvering must always be veiwed with suspicion. Politicians are using fear to justify irresponsible monetary policy. Show me the raw data and I will reconsider. Until then, it's all fear-mongering to me that benefits bankers, banks, and those in power, not the consumer who ultimately should be king here.

Kevin said...

Lu Cifer, why are you so bitter? Your side won, remember? President Obama will bring us peace.

"The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."--Karl Marx

Chas said...

THIS IS WHERE PRIMARY FUND MONEY WENT A PORTION OF MY POST ON 2/9 @ (Why does no-one order SEC filings that you can't view electronically??).:

:http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.660214/browse_thread/thread/a6e7b49c98339202#

Also, view the Latest Reserve Funds update @:
http://ther.com/pdfs/Press%20Release%20PrimInfo%202009_021309.pdf

AMERITRADE = LAWSUITS PENDING IN THE BILLIONS

Does anyone wonder why AMTD's stock price has been so beat up, w/ all
the great opportunities they have in thinkorswim & TD-Bank's new
investment? B/c certain investors KNOW ABOUT FUTURE LACK OF CASH FLOW
DUE TO FUTURE LITIGATION, THAT HASN'T BEEN DISCOUNTED INTO THE STOCK
PRICE - BECAUSE CLIENTS CAN'T SUE THE COMPANY W/O VIOLATING AN
ARBITRATION CLAUSE UNTIL PRIMARY FUND DISTRIBUTIONS HAVE BEEN PAID
BACK IN FULL.

B/C the company directed The Primary Fund & >97% of all Reserve Yield Plus investors to The Reserve.

Further, they directed investors to Reserve Funds, W/O DELIVERING PROSPECTUS' - to a PRIVATE EQUITY FUND COMPANY.

Look into Reg-D SEC filings for Reserve Management Co, Reserve
Management Co., Inc., RESRV Partners, & finally Reserve Funds (the cover up). You will see that the Reserve money market funds were central funds to which, the Reserve Private Equity Series, Small Cap
Growth, & about 6 other PE funds, could take stakes in & WHIP STAKES OUT of, such as The Primary Fund I (institutional investors tipped
off?? - The Reserve was the Institutional Investor?? If China Investment Corp. couldn't get out, who could??).

Now lets see.. (1) it's a known fact that AMTD directed >97% of Yield Plus fund investors (>$1bb fund). (2) My family was DIRECTED by TD-
Ameritrade to entrust >$6MM in the PRIMARY FUND (w/o prospectus); (3) The Primary Fund had > $65 BILLION IN ASSETS UNDER MANAGEMENT BEFORE the redemptions came in (don't let the $62 billion # fool you; there was > $3billion a week prior.

Lulu Zoe West said...

Happy Valentine's Day! The ignorance of the American public is astounding. When no one votes from the bottom up, let alone even vote, and take out corrupt politicians, and then whine when things fail, I have no mercy. For those who do vote for democracy as a Republican, need to shout louder and get the word out. McCain was to close to the middle and Palin was hung out to dry...it was too much a divide and the Democrats really play their hands powerfully and sneaky as ever. They supported Hillary and then set her aside. It was a plan and it worked. And this enconomy scare made tradition look like caveman days. And, the war was tossed aside as if it were some kind of an accident. And everyone was made to feel that unity would heal all things when unity was not the issue. OMG, we really have been screwed and the swindle is real. And, your identity is now that of a Socialist regime. And, you know what else, when 2012 comes around, we will be swept up again with this unity crap and follow the pied piper as usual. So, unless Americans can learn to wipe it's own butt and demand real jobs and tell gov't to stop driving them away with unjust taxation, and vote Republican, the beat will go on and the beatings. Kudos for spreading the word.

Anonymous said...

September 18th was the date George Washington placed the cornerstone of the Capitol building, in full masonic garb.

Chas said...

THEY DELETED THE RESERVE LINK AFTER I POSTED THIS ON SEVERAL SITES: THIS IS WHAT WAS POST ON THE RESERVE'S WEBSITE LESS THAN AN HOUR AGO (I DOCUMENTED IT):

The Plan of Liquidation and Distribution of the Reserve Primary Fund dated December 3, 2008, refers to interfund transactions aggregating approximately $2.20 billion executed in October 2008. Interfund transfers refers to transfers of cash assets between the Primary Fund and one or more of the other Reserve funds. When purchase orders were placed in September 2008 for other Reserve Funds, in some cases the purchase price was inadvertently invested in the Primary Fund. This error was identified in the course of reconciling the accounts of the Primary Fund (and other Reserve Funds) for purposes of making its initial distribution on October 30-31, 2008. The corrections were made during the month of October by transferring amounts out of the Primary Fund into the Reserve Fund where the purchase had actually been made. These interfund transfers had the effect of reducing the aggregate net assets of the Primary Fund.
An investment in the Fund is not insured or guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. Although the Fund seeks to preserve the value of your investment at $1.00 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in the Fund. Money market yields may vary.

Chas said...

The Plan of Liquidation and Distribution of the Reserve Primary Fund dated December 3, 2008, refers to interfund transactions aggregating approximately $2.20 billion executed in October 2008. Interfund transfers refers to transfers of cash assets between the Primary Fund and one or more of the other Reserve funds. When purchase orders were placed in September 2008 for other Reserve Funds, in some cases the purchase price was inadvertently invested in the Primary Fund. This error was identified in the course of reconciling the accounts of the Primary Fund (and other Reserve Funds) for purposes of making its initial distribution on October 30-31, 2008. The corrections were made during the month of October by transferring amounts out of the Primary Fund into the Reserve Fund where the purchase had actually been made. These interfund transfers had the effect of reducing the aggregate net assets of the Primary Fund.
An investment in the Fund is not insured or guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. Although the Fund seeks to preserve the value of your investment at $1.00 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in the Fund. Money market yields may vary.
Resrv Partners, Inc., Distributor. Member FINRA. 02/09
# # #
The Reserve • 1250 Broadway, New York, New York 10001 • www.TheR.com
800-637-1700

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, Chas, but you need to be less cryptic. And if my comment on Geo Washington wasn't clear, what I am saying is that it is significant that the meeting where the senators were told there was a crisis occurred on September 18th. I believe the masons are behind the 'catastrophe', real or feigned, and that they picked this date because it represents something to them. It represents the beginning of a new era, the cornerstone of the new era, which is the New World Order.

Now, Charles, please elucidate for those of us less astute than you on economic matters!

Thanks!

Marc Faber fan said...

http://www.youtube.com/v/xUBpriynzHM
at 3:30 and 7:30

http://tree3.com/sound/aj/kevryan12.29.08.mp3

Chas said...

What are you talking about?? I am not talking about politics or the world's problems after Lehman fell on SEPT 15. I am speaking to a specific company that pulled their interests out of the Primary Fund when other investors could not. The fact that they deleted the link after my writing this is only a confirmation. I think your skill set leans more toward writing than economics or structured finance in general. I am speaking to another company that directed investors to a risk maverick fund gobbling up over 85% commercial paper & held onto Lehman paper along with only 1 other money fund in the country. This fund created the Money Market Fund & subjected investors to a level of risk that was easily preventable through due diligence upon looking at credit default swap spreads & general commentary. The firm directing clients to this fund, w/o prospectus, provided absolutely no due diligence, even when an investor was demanding answers almost 1 year prior to the debacle. I have more on the relationship & you will probably see it in a news paper soon. Oh, and isn't the next distribution to take place in less than 5 hours? I haven't seen any commentary on that. What's your bet? Do they deliver?? If you know what I'm talking about, you will look very stupid in a matter of days. Good luck on the writing career!

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Anonymous said...

MOSTLY WRONG...Yes, Lehman and a money market fund "breaking the buck" were factors, but investors were already looking ahead to further collapses by year-end. More importantly, on Sept. 18 Army Times posted a report that Army North was being stood up and that 3rd Infantry division units were being geared up for combat in the Streets. It was a RUN - not just on money market funds, but by moms and pops pulling cash out of banks and moving into gold. Lehman's collapse was not enough to trigger such a rout. Nor was one money market fund's breaking the buck. The Bush WH signaled that financial armageddon was on the table re: Army North.

Note: Army Times later revised the story and gave it a new, later date, but the original version was captured and talked about at http://www.infowars.com/army-combat-team-to-train-for-homeland-sscenarios-under-northcom/

The military moves were timed perfectly - Sen. Inhofe revealed that on that Friday Paulson stepped up to threaten martial law if he didn't get the power and money he demanded - http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/november2008/112008_martial_law.htm

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe that no one, no one, picked up on the fact that when Paulson started answering Kanjorski's question, Paulson was interruped, quite purposefully, if you ask me, by none other than Barney Frank. Stopped watching at that point. Kanjorski said it all.....

God help us all!

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Anonymous said...

if the draw down were electronic, aren't they supposed to debit from one bank account and credit to another bank account? how many individual investors have electronic escrows whose clearing house is not part of the american financial institution.

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Gary anderson said...

OK I need some clarification. First, apparently 104 billion was pulled out, and that was replenished by the Fed to the tune of 105 billion before Thursday open. There was a threat that Thursday morning to remove 500 trillion and 500 trades could have brought the financial system down. It is these potential trades that people need to be looking at. Was this extortion, fear, or both? Was this part of the plan to get government to protect commercial paper? What exactly did go on? Please read the update at my link on my name and come back to comment. While there were many trades that could have happened that Thursday morning, one author says that 500 of them could have taken down the financial system. What was their motive and what was their reason for doing this?

Gary Anderson said...

Sorry, I means 500 billion, lol.

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